Arthurian Characters Tier List... I Feel Like I Forgot Someone

taliesin-the-bored - Not the Preideu Annwn
Arthurian Characters Tier List... I Feel Like I Forgot Someone

arthurian characters tier list... I feel like I forgot someone

(tier list here)

More Posts from Taliesin-the-bored and Others

8 months ago
Griflet Also Gets A Flower Crown, But His Is Ambiguous.

Griflet also gets a flower crown, but his is ambiguous.

Happy Lancelot And His Crown Of Roses Day To All Who Celebrate :)

happy lancelot and his crown of roses day to all who celebrate :)


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1 year ago

Obscure Arthurian text which everyone should read #1: The Story of the Crop-Eared Dog

This is what happens when you mash together a revenge quest, a slasher movie, a buddy road trip, a bildungsroman, a fantasy epic, and a shaggy dog story and set it in medieval times. Because there aren’t many Irish Arthurian texts, whether Bhalbhuaidh, the protagonist, is meant to be Gawain or Galahad is controversial. His name and titles could point to either and his life situation seems more like Gawain’s, but I will refer to him Galahad because I find the idea of a Galahad AU where he’s pagan and gallivants around with a prince who was turned into a giant dog and lost all qualms about murder along the way entertaining. It starts when Arthur, who inexplicably holds the title of King of the World, convenes a hunt in the Dangerous Forest on the Plain of Wonders and the mysterious Knight of the Lantern does what any antagonistic knight worth his salt would do: gatecrash and ask for violence. It gets less normal very rapidly from there. Abhlach the druidess is at least as awesome as she is wicked, Galahad may or may not have a magical music-making sword, and the fact that there’s an Island of Naked Monks is never given any explanation because it’s only mentioned in passing when the dog tells Galahad he killed them all. 

Yeah, it’s a fun read.

Here’s a link to the translation I read:


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1 year ago

Ghosts can take the form of large fuzzy animals. One lived at Merlin’s for a while.

Galahad has mugged a senior citizen.

King Alastrann of India might technically have usurped the post from a dog whose parents were previously human and his brothers.

Ector de Maris has hooked up with everyone in Morgan le Fay’s friend group (separately) at least once.

Once, Tristan killed a dragon, stuck its tongue down his pants, and was severely burned.

A war involving Arthur’s warriors destroyed a third of Ireland.

Gawain became the Emperor of China.

Arthur is in fact king of the entire world.

Lancelot got married four times, once while still married (he ended up going back to his third wife and they died old and happy).

When Lancelot first met Gawain, he mistook Gawain for God.

A few things which are “canon” somewhere for people who are worried they’re stretching it too far

Arthur was killed by a giant cat. 

Arthur killed the cat.

Arthur didn’t fight the cat. Kay did.

Kay and Bedivere use salmon as taxis. 

Lucan is half giant, half lion. (This Lucan, Lucano in the original Italian, is evil and not related to Bedivere). 

King Arthur raided the land of the dead.

The human knight Caradoc Briefbras has three half siblings: a dog, a horse, and a pig.

A large portion of Arthur’s troops was killed a while before Camlann by his nephew’s attack ravens in self-defense. Arthur and said nephew were playing chess at the time and neither did much to stop it.

Merlin retired peacefully and went to live in the countryside with Taliesin.

Wherever Arthur walks, plants die. They don’t grow back for years.

Arthur had a spunky (half?) brother who died in battle after making a mysterious oath.

Dagonet is more or less able to run the kingdom when Arthur is gone. His biggest error is overspending on mercenaries.

Guinevere has an evil almost identical twin half-sister.

Hector beat up all the best knights except for Galahad while possessed by a demon.

Gawain plays tennis.

Gawain has used a chessboard as a weapon.

Near the start of his reign, Arthur left Lot in charge of the kingdom and went on a quest with a sassy parrot.

Gawain or Galahad succeeded Arthur as king. 


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1 year ago

In further research into Yiddish collections of Arthuriana, my father found a story of Gawain. You'll never guess what it is, I guarantee. Go on, guess. You're wrong.

It's a Yiddish story about Sir Gawain becoming Emperor of China.

1 year ago

At this point, my categorized Arthurian theme song list has spiraled entirely beyond reasonable proportions. If it’s taught me anything, it’s that at least two thirds of Imagine Dragons’ songs seem like they could be about Mordred.


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1 year ago

The Death-song/Elegy of Uther Pendragon: New Translations

(Credit to @wandrenowle (awesome person) who gave me this excerpt from a recent translation of The Book of Taliesin)

The Death-song/Elegy Of Uther Pendragon: New Translations
The Death-song/Elegy Of Uther Pendragon: New Translations

A few points to make:

There's a certain ambiguity about whether or not the narrator here really is Uther Pendragon himself.

The part where Uther is named "Shining Armor" - I believe this is the translation for the original word in the poem, "Gorlassar". From what I can research online, "Gorlassar" could also mean "Bright Blue/Very Blue" or even "Higher than the sky". I've heard some theories online before that Geoffrey of Monmouth created the character "Duke Gorlois of Cornwall" from this epithet of Uther's.

If so, that means the possibility of Igraine always having been Uther's wife and Igraine only ever had one husband. Huh.

Wow, apparently Arthur is not as badass as his dad, being only a ninth of Uther's prowess. This is the very same Arthur who, in Welsh Myth, can destroy armies by the hundreds, go toe-to-toe with giants and is the standard of comparison for warrior excellence ("...although he was no Arthur"). This elegy implies Uther is leagues more powerful than that.

It reminds of Sir Branor, the Dragon Knight, from Palamedes, a 120-year old knight of the Round Table from Uther's era. When he shows up to Arthur's court, he challenges everyone in Camelot, including Lancelot, Gawain and Tristan, and soundly kicks their asses. The general impression is that however OP King Arthur and his knights are, Uther and his boys are waaaaaay more OP. Very Anime.

(It also has shades of Nestor from the Iliad, talking about how the heroes of the "Seven against Thebes" would kick anyone's ass in the Trojan War)

The part where Uther boasts of his Poetic Prowess - "as great as that, of seven score poets". This, in particular, fascinates me. See, in an older translation, that particular segment is phrased as such:

The Death-song/Elegy Of Uther Pendragon: New Translations

There is a tradition Uther Pendragon really does magical abilities:

The Death-song/Elegy Of Uther Pendragon: New Translations

In the new translation, Uther is primarily hyping his skills in the Bardic arts, but personally, I think that doesn't preclude Uther's magic powers.

In Celtic Myth, Bards, because their status as lore-keepers, often had magical powers, like Prophecy, shapeshifting (Taliesin and Myrddin/Merlin) or having the power to harm and curse using satires:

The Death-song/Elegy Of Uther Pendragon: New Translations

I believe there's even a term for Bardic Prophecy in Welsh: "Canu Darogan".

This sort of loops back to "Uther>Arthur" again, seeing as how Arthur is one of "the Three Frivolous Bards of the Island of Britain"

The Death-song/Elegy Of Uther Pendragon: New Translations

Jeez, can imagine being at your death bed, and like, decide " I'm gonna write an entire poem about how awesome I am and how my prophesized, magic son ain't shit compared to me"


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1 year ago

“The Elder Knight” by Dorothy L. Sayers

Note: the speaker is Galahad; the elder knight is Lancelot. This poem is one of my favorites. It’s unusual in that its version of Galahad is really, really spiteful, and the ending is unforgettable.   I.

I have met you foot to foot, I have fought you face to face,

I have held my own against you and lost no inch of place,

    And you shall never see

    How you have broken me.

You sheathed your sword in the dawn, and you smiled with careless eyes,

Saying "Merrily struck, my son, I think you may have your prize."

    Nor saw how each hard breath

    Was painfully snatched from death.

I held my head like a rock; I offered to joust again,

Though I shook, and my palsied hand could hardly cling to the rein;

    Did you curse my insolence

    And over-confidence?

You have ridden, lusty and fresh, to the morrow's tournament;

I am buffeted, beaten, sick at the heart and spent.—

    Yet, as God my speed be

    I will fight you again if need be.

               II.

A white cloud running under the moon

   And three stars over the poplar-trees,

Night deepens into her lambent noon;

   God holds the world between His knees;

Yesterday it was washed with the rain,

But now it is clean and clear again.

Your hands were strong to buffet me,

   But, when my plume was in the dust,

Most kind for comfort verily;

   Success rides blown with restless lust;

Herein is all the peace of heaven:

To know we have failed and are forgiven.

The brown, rain-scented garden beds

   Are waiting for the next year's roses;

The poplars wag mysterious heads,

   For the pleasant secret each discloses

To his neighbour, makes them nod, and nod—

So safe is the world on the knees of God.

             III.

I have the road before me; never again

   Will I be angry at the practised thrust

That flicked my fingers from the lordly rein

   To scratch and scrabble among the rolling dust.

I never will be angry — though your spear

   Bit through the pauldron, shattered the camail,

Before I crossed a steed, through many a year

   Battle on battle taught you how to fail.

Can you remember how the morning star

   Winked through the chapel window, when the day

Called you from vigil to delights of war

   With such loud jollity, you could not pray?

Pray now, Lord Lancelot; your hands are hard

   With the rough hilts; great power is in your eyes,

Great confidence; you are not newly scarred,

   And conquer gravely now without surprise.

Pray now, my master; you have still the joy

   Of work done perfectly; remember not

The dizzying bliss that smote you when, a boy,

   You faced some better man, Lord Lancelot.

Pray now — and look not on my radiant face,

   Breaking victorious from the bloody grips—

Too young to speak in quiet prayer or praise

   For the strong laughter bubbling to my lips.

Angry? because I scarce know how to stand,

   Gasping and reeling against the gates of death,

While, with the shaft yet whole within your hand,

   You smile at me with undisordered breath?

Not I — not I that have the dawn and dew,

   Wind, and the golden shore, and silver foam —

I that here pass and bid good-bye to you —

   For I ride forward — you are going home.

Truly I am your debtor for this hour

   Of rough and tumble — debtor for some good tricks

Of tourney-craft; — yet see how, flower on flower,

   The hedgerows blossom! How the perfumes mix

Of field and forest! — I must hasten on —

   The clover scent blows like a flag unfurled;

When you are dead, or aged and alone,

   I shall be foremost knight in all the world —

My world, not yours, beneath the morning's gold,

   My hazardous world, where skies and seas are blue;

Here is my hand. Maybe, when I am old,

   I shall remember you, and pray for you.


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1 year ago

A post of mine from several months ago about the Perlesvaus self-rearranging forest just wandered across my dash again and made me think about it some more, so I wanted to talk about it a bit.

Perlesvaus, for those who don’t know, is a 13th-century French Arthurian romance. It’s intended to be a continuation of Chretien de Troyes’s Perceval, but it’s mostly known for being completely batshit when it’s known at all. (There’s an old book on Arthurian texts that dedicates a chapter to Perlesvaus and repeatedly speculates that the anonymous author had Something Wrong With Him. This is the longest scholarly treatment of Perlesvaus I’ve been able to find & read.)

Anyway, there’s an odd worldbuilding detail in the text. See, it’s a Thing in chivalric romances that the questing knights happen upon castles & lords & damsels & such that are unfamiliar to them and have to be explained. You know, “this is the Castle of Such-and-Such, where the local custom is as follows. It’s ruled by Lady So-and-So, whose character I shall now describe to you.”

This is a genre convention that largely goes unquestioned, but it’s a bit odd if you think about it. All these knights are at least minor nobility. They don’t know the other nobles in their region? They don’t know what castles are where? Don’t they have, like, diplomatic relations with these people or at least attend the same tournaments? Even if they’re all fully committed to the knight-errant lifestyle and don’t really engage in courtly diplomacy, you’d think they would share information with each other and get the lay of the land. But instead, to use TTRPG terminology, it’s like they’re all on a hexcrawl that was randomly generated just for them to have these adventures.

The author of Perlesvaus decides to address this. In what’s kind of a throwaway paragraph late in the text, he explains that God moves things around so knights always have new quests to do (and, presumably, is also making sure they always arrive at the right narratively-significant moment). So the reason they’re always encountering people & places they have no knowledge of is because those people & places really weren’t there yesterday. They didn’t know about the Castle of Such-and-Such because it’s normally a thousand miles away and the forest path they followed to get there used to lead somewhere else.

And I think that would be a really interesting thing to stick into a novel or a TTRPG or something. When a knight rides into the forest with the intent of Going On A Quest, at some point they go around a bend in the path, cross an invisible barrier, and wind up in the Forest of Narrative. This is a vast forest with no set geography, filled with winding paths and populated almost entirely with questing knights, damsels in search of questing knights, friendly hermits, strange creatures, and allegorical set-pieces. Then, at the narratively-appropriate time, they cross back over the invisible barrier back into the regular world, and find themselves wherever the Narrative has decided they need to be. This could be a different country, a different continent, or a different world entirely.

Whether anyone involved is actually aware that this is how it works is… optional, really. Though if it’s not a Known Phenomenon, the people whose jobs it is to handle trade & diplomacy & god forbid, maps, are going to end up tearing their hair out in frustration.


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taliesin-the-bored - Not the Preideu Annwn
Not the Preideu Annwn

In which I ramble about poetry, Arthuriana, aroace stuff, etc. In theory. In practice, it's almost all Arthuriana.

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