Follow Your Passion: A Seamless Tumblr Journey
So I wanted to ask you a bit more about Bunny and Ralph and their ‘domestic ménage’! I find it weird too. It’s never really clear, they seem to speak in code, then there is the separate kettles thing, that freaked me out when I noticed it, and that weird ‘Bunny’s gone’ except that he hasn’t, and then Ralph ‘Do you feel like believing that?’ What do you think is going on there…….
Honestly, I have no idea! I was very meh the first time I read about their relationship (before the car scene, of course) because I was convinced that Laurie was just blowing it all out of proportion. It seemed to me to be a casual relationship: stuff like the separate kettles, Ralph having his own apartment (even though Bunny lives downstairs), etc. all formed this idea in my mind that they were just messing around and weren't anything really serious. Now, I don’t think that’s true anymore but I’m no more clear on the intricacies of their relationship than I was before. Ralph certainly doesn’t seem to respect Bunny and Alec seems to agree that he’s not suited to him (which Laurie reiterates through his constant questioning of how Ralph can stand him). But other than that, I’ve no idea what is going on.
I think a major reason I thought their relationship was weird is because of the fact that all the information we get of it comes from Laurie, who himself feels that way but doesn’t know enough about the situation to provide an answer as to why Ralph would be in it in the first place; he doesn’t know most of the story, is only there at the end, adores one-half of the equation while despising the other…and he’s the only one we can follow along with! It doesn’t help that most of his observations only serve to reintroduce/reinforce the same two questions constantly in his mind: 'why is Ralph with someone like this?' and ‘how can Ralph stand him?’ And that's all we get as readers! It's just Bunny being odd or painfully tone-deaf (the comments about Bim) or actually evil (the car scene+what he does to Andrew) and Laurie looking at Ralph, who he adores and has been dreaming about for years, going: 'but why though?’
I don’t have many other thoughts but I would love to hear more (real, unlike mine) theories! I’m really in the dark about Bunny generally; I feel there’s lots of stuff I didn’t pick up on regarding his character because I was too busy focusing on Laurie and Ralph. Oh, and as far as the ‘can you really believe that?’ comment, I assume it’s just that Ralph is used to such things being disbelieved. Laurie himself has a moment where he thinks they might get back together so long as no one intervenes to keep them away from one another in 48 hours (I think so anyway, I might be misremembering what he said). But anyway, thank you for the ask! I'm sorry I don't have much more to say!
I wondered about the cancelled party thing too! I thought it was plausible at least because Bunny does say something about Ralph keeping Laurie a little hidden and (I think, I don't really remember) seems annoyed by this. It's not a stretch to think he'd lie about being out for the night, only to show up when he knows Laurie is there.
That said, Laurie also thinks later that Bunny isn't so much a planner as he is someone who just takes chances when they come to him. Alec hints at this too. So, I don't really know if I'm right: the level of foresight/planning that my idea of Bunny would suggest doesn't line up with the common perception of him given by at least 2 characters...honestly, Bunny (and his relationship with Ralph) always seemed odd to me. I was half-convinced the first time I read the book that Laurie was simply misjudging the situation and they weren't as serious as he imagined. I mean, Ralph never shows any real affection for Bunny in any of their scenes together! And Bunny is very weird! Their whole relationship was so weird to me lol
Hi there @telltaleangelina I just wanted to think a bit more about the scene with Bunny and Laurie in the car scene on the back of your ask/answer.
I think you really got to the heart of it with that line ‘the practiced inflection’. Laurie uses his intuition a lot (sometimes without even being sure what he is picking up) and it’s just such a creepy line, indicating how Bunny seamlessly adopts that tone. Although I suppose there is an analogue with Ralph giving Bunny ‘the straight look’ for the first time back at the flat.
It suddenly occurred to me that cars are so symbolic of male power at that time, and it evokes that horrible trope of men taking women out and expecting some kind of ‘payment’. I wonder if Bunny is just so cynical that he assumes Laurie is paying Ralph back in kind for the lift, and decides he wants a piece of the action. Or he thinks Ralph is being ridiculously gentlemanly about Laurie and wants to bring him down to his level.
I realised the scene provides a contrast to the earlier car scene with Ralph. I know we love the little knee touch in the 1953 version when they are parked up at the scenic spot, but to me, she took that out for a reason in the 1959. It shows the high level of tension (not just sexual!) between them and the way both of them are being hyper-vigilant – Ralph trying very hard to judge the moment with Laurie, and Laurie trying very hard to be respectful of the fact that Ralph has a boyfriend. And also, Laurie sits in silence to avoid attracting Ralph’s anger when he hits the traffic. And he is so uncomfortable with being dependent on Ralph – the number of times he tries to leave the party to get the bus, and he tries it again at Bunny’s.
I also realised that it almost doesn’t matter whether Bunny would have followed through with his threat or not. It just conjures up the horrible thought that he is used to getting what he wants, and most of the time, people don’t stand up to him. So perhaps this is a neat way to show Laurie’s strength of character in a crisis.
The other thing that is quite disturbing, if not surprising, though, is that Laurie then plays it down with Ralph. Partly because he fears not being believed (a bit like Alec silently taking the blame for Bunny’s gossip for a quiet life), and partly to spare Ralph’s feelings. I realised he would be very influenced as well by the ‘no snitch’ rule in school, where telling on another boy would be considered worse than the original offence. But it is cowardly too. I wonder if his anger on the staircase is partly fueled by his frustration at being put in that situation, the suggestion that Ralph is so inured to that kind of behaviour that he doesn’t even notice any more. And in a way Ralph is responsible, because even if Bunny spiked his drink, he still chose alcohol over tea. But Laurie is also too passive. In the end Ralph ends it with Bunny without knowing for sure what he did. Unless he knows because Bunny has form. In which case why is he with someone like that? Either way, Laurie’s horrible accusations on the staircase have the ring of truth.
And finally I can’t go without mentioning that other linked car scene – Ralph kissing Laurie on the first night at the party (very heavy hint anyway) when he is dreaming about his mother kissing him!! And Ralph sitting there having a cigarette while he waits for Laurie to wake up is so sweet.
I completely forgot the line you mentioned about Andrew’s mind being where it should have been, but your comments about it are spot on! Andrew is too saddened by Laurie leaving, and then too distracted by refusing his demands, that he cannot think enough to come up with a way to comfort Charlot, his actual charge. It really makes the whole thing 10x sadder. I'm definitely gonna have to go back and reread that scene now, just to get a clearer sense of it all!
Re: 'the loss of that relationship feels real to me' I think is because it is a real loss. Laurie loved Andrew, and always felt their relationship to be real even when Ralph didn't, but by the end he can never see him again. It's heartbreaking.
Actually, both times I read the book, I came away happy for Laurie but also very sad and I think his relationship with Andrew (and Andrew's whole storyline) is the reason why. If you think about it, at the end of the book, Laurie is put in the exact same position Ralph was all those years ago at school: here is someone who adores him, and who refuses to believe that he's done what he's been accused of simply because he cannot fathom that he'd do it. And what does Laurie do? Exactly what Ralph did: he tells the truth, gives Andrew the Phaedrus and goes away. But what will happen to Andrew after this? We don't know and neither does Laurie. He may die in the next 5 years, but even if he doesn't, it seems hopelessly optimistic to envision a similar happy ending to Laurie's for him.
@telltaleangelina I loved your post about Ralph/Laurie’s philosophy of life compared with Andrew’s, which so resonated with me - they have a kind of heroic idealism which is very attractive, and apart from anything else it supplies most of the drama and action of the book!
But it also made me want to think more about Andrew and his motivations. So, inspired by the 'Hot Austen men' polls, here is some propaganda for Andrew. At fifteen he had to decide whether to throw in his lot with the military side of his family or the pacifist one, and it is made clear he took this decision seriously:
“I thought all around it. I thought there might conceivably even be some circumstances when I felt it was right to kill. If I knew whom I was killing and the circumstance and the nature of the responsibility. What I finally stuck at was surrendering my moral choice to men I'd never met, about whose moral standards I knew nothing whatever."
He becomes a CO not to abrogate moral responsibility but so that he can take responsibility for his actions. Later he and Laurie have this exchange:
“One has to draw the line where one sees it oneself."
"Is that what you call the inner light?"
"If you like, yes."
So the thing that strikes me about the Charlot incident is that his principled stance is not blind faith or rigidity of thought. His main regret is that fighting with Laurie prevented him finding a solution to the problem. He says:
“If I ... if my mind had been where it should have been, I'd have known what ought to be done, something would have come to me."
Laurie says:
"I do this kind of thing. I get steamed up about things that happen to people till I've got to do something or burst, and if it turns out to do more harm than good, hell, what's the odds, it did good to me. At school for instance. A man -- one of the boys I mean, was going to be sacked, and because I liked him I took for granted he couldn't have done it, and I was all set to have raised hell and involved a lot of other people. And all the time he'd done it after all."
Laurie admits that actually it feels good to ‘do’ something, even if the other person doesn't want it. It is easy to see that both of them have a valid point when it comes to the practicalities. But for me, the point is that as long as they are trying to impose their will on each other, and operating from a place of ego, there is no possibility of finding another solution. There are a hundred things they could have done to ease Charlot’s last moments if they had stopped thinking about themselves for one moment. I think it's interesting for example that Laurie is the only person Charlot still recognises but he wants to 'outsource' comfort to someone else.
And then I realised that when Laurie is referring back to his 16 year old self getting 'steamed up' it is Ralph who points out to him that however much he might ‘want’ to ‘do’ something, it will be hurting other innocent people such as his own family (and very likely including Ralph himself).
Often, Laurie is annoyed at Ralph's inability to stand by. The bit on the stairs at the party, for instance, and the bit where he tells Ralph "You can't eat and breathe for me, or live for me. No one can." Pretty strong stuff to say to the man you just made passionate love to a moment ago! And let's not forget the comment about the drunk trying to mend the watch.
Sometimes I think the really sad thing is that Laurie is locked in to a different system of morality (The Phaedrus), one which means he is Andrew’s mentor and protector and Andrew is the innocent and therefore had no real moral agency. I'm not sure that means he could have or should have been with Andrew as a romantic partner, but the loss of that relationship feels real to me.
And finally....I think you have made me understand something that has always puzzled/amused me a little bit about the arguments that Laurie/Ralph have. He uses all those military analogies that seem to suggest that even while he sees that Ralph is trying to dominate him and battles with it, he is also, kind of, comfortable with it. And maybe it is that he sees himself in Ralph, he completely understands why Ralph is behaving the way he does. I always find that so touching (a little bit funny too, especially the captain shouting 'fire'!)
I hope you'll be able to post! I'd love to hear your thoughts!
Re the Alec line - - I'm taking it in the sense that Alec finally gets to do what Ralph never allowed him to do in their relationship: help him. And it's kind of sweet to see all the effort he had to go to in order to make sure Laurie straightens everything out.
A little random blurb but: I really liked Alec and Ralph's friendship. When I was reading, I got the impression they were somewhat similar in character and this was their issue before when they were together. But maybe I'm wrong here; Alec does say Ralph's capacity to shoulder responsibility is singular and he doesn't share it. I can't think of much beyond these small thoughts but seeing it all laid out made me wonder about it more.
At the end of The Charioteer, Laurie lies to Ralph but feels the lie as if it's true. There's something that must be done, and only he can do it. He accepts this, even if he lies in order to achieve it.
Before, Ralph told Laurie he hates to stand by watching while there's pain or the possibility of it, and do nothing. It's not the way he's made, he says. This is a direct contrast to Andrew, who we see literally standing, watching and doing nothing when caring for Charlot. This is not because Andrew is unkind, it is because there is right and wrong and nothing whatever in between. Ralph is not like this: people need someone, he takes on that responsibility, even if it isn't his to shoulder. He acts like God, they say. He's the opposite of Andrew in this regard. Maybe the point is that Laurie isn't like Andrew either, although he loves him. It's also not in his nature to stand and watch people suffer; this is why he felt something ought to be done in school when Ralph was being kicked out, and why he feels it at the end of the book when he realizes what Ralph is planning to do. It's why he feels the pressing demand to deceive Charlot even as he knows that, in his right mind, the man would never want it. I got the sense the first time I read the book and now the second, that Laurie is much more generally suited to Ralph, and this is why.
I don't know if this makes sense, I've not gotten much sleep. Any thoughts? Do you think this is right, wrong? Am I overthinking it?
The Andrew description is so so similar to the Ralph one. Fair hair and tanned skin obviously but there are so many details, he's even wearing grey like the school uniform. A proper post will follow but in the meantime omG
At the end of The Charioteer, Laurie lies to Ralph but feels the lie as if it's true. There's something that must be done, and only he can do it. He accepts this, even if he lies in order to achieve it.
Before, Ralph told Laurie he hates to stand by watching while there's pain or the possibility of it, and do nothing. It's not the way he's made, he says. This is a direct contrast to Andrew, who we see literally standing, watching and doing nothing when caring for Charlot. This is not because Andrew is unkind, it is because there is right and wrong and nothing whatever in between. Ralph is not like this: people need someone, he takes on that responsibility, even if it isn't his to shoulder. He acts like God, they say. He's the opposite of Andrew in this regard. Maybe the point is that Laurie isn't like Andrew either, although he loves him. It's also not in his nature to stand and watch people suffer; this is why he felt something ought to be done in school when Ralph was being kicked out, and why he feels it at the end of the book when he realizes what Ralph is planning to do. It's why he feels the pressing demand to deceive Charlot even as he knows that, in his right mind, the man would never want it. I got the sense the first time I read the book and now the second, that Laurie is much more generally suited to Ralph, and this is why.
I don't know if this makes sense, I've not gotten much sleep. Any thoughts? Do you think this is right, wrong? Am I overthinking it?
The Charioteer, Chapter 6: “Here if anywhere, he thought, was someone to whom he could release the pressure of so much uncommunicated experience, who would inevitably understand. He remembered how after Charles’s party, leaning out of his window long into the night, he had thought of Ralph; though it was already years since their brief meeting, the thought had supported him in his isolation.”
The Charioteer, Chapter 7: “Suddenly, as if the memory had been kept in storage especially for this, he saw with extraordinary vividness Ralph’s face against the background of the dismantled study. Ralph had been nineteen. And here was a grown man in wartime making such heavy weather of so little. Earlier today, during one of the current invasion rumours, Laurie had pictured an English Thermopylae...amid the last-ditch grimness of this vision there had intruded a vague exhilaration, and he realised that he had imagined Ralph beside him. So, but much more so, it was now, and with this sudden comfort he found he had got to the door, and was outside in the shelter of the corridor.”
When I came across the second of these sections, it reminded me of the first; I thought they were both very sweet.