Lately, I Often Come Across The Opinion That Ascended Astarion’s Line, “I Can't Believe You Let Me

Oberyn Martell and Ellaria Sand. They're perfect for references. The dynamics of Lord Astarion and Tav. Oberyn different character, of course. Similar vibes: - bisexuality/pansexuality - a very close relationship with one partner, who has all his trust, despite various erotic adventures (although I'd like to point out if Tav doesn't like that sort of thing, I think their pleasures largely reflect each other, and they'll find plenty of ways to have fun just the two of them) - sun symbolism

Neil Newbon on Ascended Astarion

Neil: I do love the fact that I got to create kind of two characters in one.

Blue Owl Medic: I was just thinking that. Yeah, you did.

Neil: So now that the game has come out and the whole thing, we can talk a little bit more freely about the game. No real spoilers, folks, because obviously people are still playing through it, which is amazing, including me. But there is an ascended Astarion, which people probably know, as well as an unascended Astarion. I'm not going to go into details of why, although it is all over the internet, but anyway.

But one of the fun things that I got to do with the directors and the writer as well, with Stephen, and also the other writers that contributed towards Astarion, [is that they] wrote this ascended storyline. And so, when I came across that, I realized that 'Oh, his voice probably changes as well, because his whole status changes and his whole situation changes and his power changes.' So I got to do something else, because that would also be an easy way to switch between one and the other.

And so I decided that, well, I've always talked about Astarion being very theatrical. So what if Astarion's unascended spawn is theatrical, and ascended Astarion is operatic, and I use that as a sort of launchpad. So that one is theatre, one is opera. So the two are the same kind of things, but essentially… Do you know what I mean? It's like that kind of thing.

I offered that up to the directors and they really liked it. Kirsty Gilmore was the first person who I tried it with. I think it was Kirsty Gilmore, who is an amazing director. I'm pretty sure it was her session I did the first Lord Astarion and we set the tone there. And that was really cool.

BOM: And I don't know if that was your choice, but he also holds himself differently.

Neil: Yes, he does, he definitely holds himself differently.

BOM: He stands way more upright, his chest is a little more out

Neil: Yes, that's status. That's all Laban work. We're just using completely different status shift changes as well. So whereas he has a lot of flow and all that kind of stuff and it's theatrical and distracting--it's always 'look over here and don't see how I really feel' with spawn Astarion.

With Lord Astarion, we talked a lot about the idea that the cover is now off completely. So that you see him at his most terrible, and it's completely honest and he doesn't have to pretend anymore. So he loses a lot of the flamboyance and the fun of the theatricality, which is all a distraction anyway. That's all distraction so you don't see how he's hurt and damaged and his vulnerability. Lord Astarion doesn't need that anymore. So we just thought, okay, now *mimics taking off a mask* it's off. He doesn't need to pretend, he doesn't need to do too much. It's all about the status and that kind of stuff.

It was a really fun experience to take a character I've been doing for a long time and then flip it. And that was, again, brilliant writing by Larian, brilliant storytelling by them all and brilliant ideas. So yeah, it was really fun.

--from Neil's February 1, 2024 twitch stream

I got curious about how Astarion looks in moments when the in-game camera doesn’t show him. And when I finally saw it, I froze, unable to stop recording… I nearly melted from tenderness as I looked at his dear, satisfied face. Oh, my Lord…

This scene has always broken my heart, but the mod helped a little — at least now I can comfort him.

My boys...

Ascended Astarion and how he's not like Cazador

Regarding the claim that the lore of vampire brides is supposedly outdated because it’s based on Van Richten's Guide to Vampires, published in 1991, and that this lore isn’t mentioned in the current edition of DnD 5e, specifically in the 2021 edition of Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft:

First of all, vampire brides are also mentioned in Van Richten’s Monster Hunter’s Compendium from 1999.

But most importantly, the 2021 edition of Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft directly references Van Richten's Guide to Vampires.

So…

If we disregard the lore of Ravenloft (even though the game clearly alludes to it) and focus solely on the game itself:

Player: How does someone become a vampire, exactly? Astarion: It's simple. Just find a vampire that will drink your blood and turn you into a vampire spawn: their obedient puppet. In theory, the next step is to drink their blood. Once you've done that, you're free and a true vampire. Player: 'In theory'? Astarion: People think the biggest threat to a vampire is a cleric with a stake. It's not. The biggest threat to a vampire is another vampire. They're scheming, paranoid, power-hungry beasts. So why would any vampire give up control over a spawn to create a competitor?

Player: So they bite you, you bite them? Astarion: Yes and no. The problem is once you're a vampire spawn, they completely control you. They have to allow you to bite them. And why would they do that? Vampires are power-hungry creatures. They won't lose a servant to create a competitor. Trust me. It doesn't happen.

Once AA gives Tav his blood, they can no longer be considered a spawn—according to the lore, they become a true vampire. This is confirmed both by in-game dialogues and the D&D 5E lore on which the game is based.

Astarion: Nearly two hundred years and I never came back. Not since the night I woke up down there. I had to punch a hole in the coffin and claw my way through six feet of dirt. Then when I finally broke the surface, retching up dirt and congealed blood, Cazador was waiting. From that day on I was his. Until today. Moreover, we never see AA mentally controlling Tav the way Cazador controlled his spawns—which would be undeniable proof of their status as a spawn. The game only presents a dialogue about freedom, which does not contradict the concept of Tav as a bride but also does not confirm any magical control that could prove otherwise.

So if you believe that the Bride Theory is unfounded and that the process of becoming a vampire bride doesn’t align with what is shown in the game, then consider this: it has even less in common with the process of becoming a spawn. The turning into a spawn is described in detail in the game, and clearly not without reason—and Tav's/Dark Urge's turning is not just different in some aspects, it has absolutely no similarities with it.

No matter which lore you take, Tav is not a spawn.

Maybe I should make a post with counterarguments to all the most common arguments against the Bride Theory.

hot take good endings only players are really fucking rude to the point that it's actually ridiculous

you don't understand the game, the story, the lore, or the characters better because you prefer the good endings

you don't love the characters more because you prefer the good endings

people who like the evil endings aren't stupid

people who like the evil endings don't like them "just because they think it's sexy"

if you want to know why people like the ending you don't like

you could

just

ask

instead of making shit the fuck up

Astarion's past as a magistrate and Astarion's scenes from EA.

“Who needs morals when you have good hair?” Astarion.

“Two hundred years ago, Astarion was a corrupt elite of Baldur’s Gate with a taste for power and a hunger for eternal life. It wasn’t long before these desires became a nightmarish reality. Transformed into the vampire spawn of a sadistic master, Astarion was kept as a slave to lure fresh noble blood to the palace of Cazador – all while subsisting on the putrid blood of rats. Astarion’s design is inspired by his story of indentured servitude and told through scar tissue and rogue garb. His leather armour still boasts the fine golden embroidery of high society, an aesthetic inspired by 18th-century libertines and European rock stars of the early ‘90s – two subcultures that echo Astarion’s desire to live a life without restraint. But beneath this costume is a constant reminder of the centuries spent enslaved, in the form of a poem carved into his flesh by his vampire lord.”

The first lines of the artbook tell us that our beloved vampire in the past belonged to the corrupt elite of Baldur and craved power and eternal life. And his desire for eternal life was fulfilled, but in a horrible, twisted form - in the form of his worst nightmare - Astarion became the spawn of the sadistic Kazador. In the final of Sun King (Astarion Origins), Astarion recalls how he judged the fates of others in the past. Now in the game we can learn very little about Astarion's past, although it is known that Astarion was a Magistrate. And references to his past are present in several scenes:

References to Astarion's Past as a Magistrate - BG3

The first mention of Astarion being a magistrate we can hear is if we ask Astarion to tell us about himself (“Tell me about yourself”), Astarion replies, “Oh, what's to tell? I'm a magistrate back in the city - it's all rather tedious.”

After a closer encounter (after the bite), we can also ask: “You must remember your life before that?” “I was a magistrate, working to keep the peace in Baldur's Gate. Imprisoning trouble makers, that kind of thing.” And he adds bitterly: “I can't remember much, truth be told. Centuries of torment will do that to you.”

And if you imagine what Astarion experienced during his years of slavery to Cazador, you can understand, why his past life became something distant for him, why many of his memories are lost. Also according to DnD lore, once a person is converted to a spawn, some of the memory of a person's past life is erased. That said, it's hard to say with that, how much Astarion even wants to tell Tav about his past. “Why do you insist on exhuming the past?” - Astarion sounds tense in this line, somewhat angry, he is distrustful and suspicious.

Three lines in the game in which Astarion talks about what happened to him on that fateful night when Cazador found him:

"I was attacked. A gang of vagrants, a tribe of wandering 'Gur', took issue with a ruling I'd made.”

“They beat me to death's door when Cazador appeared. He chased them off and offered to save me. To give me eternal life."

"Not him, no. A gang of thugs attacked me, angry about a ruling that I'd handed down as magistrate."

The reason the Gur gang attacked and nearly killed Astarion was because of his decision that Astarion made as a magistrate. The reason why the elf noble magistrate was in unsafe parts of the city, where he could be attacked by the Gur gang (this could hardly happen in the Upper City or in a safe neighborhood guarded by guards), and why Cazador happened to be around at the right time and place, is left out of the picture. Astarion also mentions that he had his own “history” with the Gur: “The point is I have history with these barbarians. Cazador's sending a message.” And most likely, this “story” with Gur had to do with the very decision that Astarion once made as a magistrate, and that caused Gur to hate him. Cazador may well have sent him such a “message” as well, and Astarion thinks so. (“My old master sent that vagabond after me.”) He is confident that more thugs will come after him, and we learn with him much later (when we meet Gur in Act 3) that the Gur are looking for their children.

“A Selunite necklace, if I'm any judge. And I am.” - Astarion's banter when finding the Selunite Necklace. Another reference to his past. Doing Wyll's quest (to find Ansur) you can get Astarion's opinion as a judge when we solve the “punishing the thief” puzzle.

In Astarion Origins, during his conversation with Wyll, Astarion also tells Wyll about his past as a magistrate (“I was a magistrate once, I could see if you missed any loopholes in your contract.”), offering to help Wyll find some loopholes in his contract with Mizora.

By the way, this shows that Astarion's legal experience did not disappear anywhere and remained with him. And Astarion had definitely studied the terms of the deal with Mephistopheles regarding the Ascension ritual, which was so important to him (Raphael's tale, the description of the ritual in The Necromancy of Thay, the Vellioth's scrolls - he had three sources of information during this time), and he knew exactly what he was doing. Those who claim that “Astarion found out about the ritual five minutes before it started”, or that Astarion is a silly scared kid, who just this second suddenly decided to do the ritual out of fear, simply don't know the game's plot well.

Final of the Sun King (Astarion Origins). Narrator's line:

“It’s been a long time since you’ve stood in judgement over others, holding their lives in your hands. But after everything you’ve done, doesn’t this feel right?”

In this finale, Astarion seems to reclaim his past self, only becoming much stronger, more powerful, and more majestic… His story began as a magistrate, he aspired to the top, fell, went through hell, broke free, took revenge, and rose again, only now to a much higher peak. This looks like the fulfillment of his wishes and the victorious conclusion of his story. And Ascended Astarion in the epilogue also says, “I'm who I always wanted to be. I have everything I ever wanted.”

In Astarion's Character Sheets, his backstory is told as follows:

“Astarion prowled the night as a vampire spawn for centuries, forced to follow the orders of his sadistic Master, Cazador: Seduce every fool with a pulse, and lure them back to my lair. Free for now, he will do anything to keep his life in the light. He can see but one way to ensure his liberty for good: become many times more powerful than his old abuser even could dream of being.

His body is forever tainted by the intricate, patterned scarring Cazador carved upon his back, and the elder vampire seems set on sending waves of hunters seeking to capture his lost spawn.”

Personal Traits:

“Astarion drips with charm before everyone he meets. How much of it is an act, even he himself isn’t sure of any more”.

Ideals:

“Freedom almost tastes finer than blood, and Astarion will do everything he can to secure it”.

Flaws:

“While he has hoiled seduction down to a fine art, and can quickly win over almost anyone, keeping and trusting a new-found ally is another challenge altogether”.

Sure, I would have liked to see more of Astarion's backstory revealed within the game, but that's not going to be realized. For me, as a fan of this game, the biggest regret was the Astarion scenes from EA, which were made and were in EA, but they were not included in the game after release, now you can only see some of Astarion's banters from those scenes. For example, Astarion's nightmare can now only be seen in his Origin, and in EA we could talk to him about it. In those scenes Astarion was revealing himself wonderfully, he was bright, expressive and very emotional. But, fortunately, the authors of youtube channels, who went through the game in EA, saved his scenes, and we can still admire Astarion in them and have a deeper look at his character.

Astarion about the "little death" (Early Access patch 4):

“Astarion often uttered the phrase "Little death" and I started looking for information about this expression and I came across a quote in which for me it is still the essence of the relationship with him.

The French expression for orgasm, la petite mort ("little death"), implies an orgasmic loss of oneself that destroys the pain of separateness — the lonely Self disappears into the resulting We." © AlexKhodja (channel Arts&Games).

Also, the “little death” scene complements Astarion's line at the Tiefling party: “Not at all! I was hoping for companionship and - well, maybe a little death. Figuratively speaking.”

“Who needs morals when you have good hair?” (Astarion and Gale monster hunter conversation):

Astarion's comment on Goblin Sazza:

Astarion doesn't suffer weak minded fools - (Patch 4) Fisherman Conversation:

"Sweetie, you can't murder 'vermin'":

Astarion wants to stay and party with the goblins! - Patch 4 Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access:

I managed to catch a shot of Astarion looking frustrated at having to search for some druid instead of having fun at the party:

And then those satisfied, sly eyes:

Astarion about slaves of myconids [Baldur's Gate 3] [Early Access] [Patch 5]:

Astarion Comments on Mayrina's Situation (Astarion just has an adorable laugh in this scene):

A collection of Astarion's heavy emotional reactions - when he's angry or scared, but it's so strong, it's just impossible to watch indifferently:

It's heart wrenching and makes me want to comfort him as soon as possible, but it's such a strong and impressive range of emotions that it just knocks you off your feet. It's hard to understand why most of these dialog lines were removed in the release version. Neil played incredibly well, Astarion is so alive that watching these scenes you feel fear, when you see his fear, and pain for him, when you see his pure rage. When Tav insults Astarion, he responds (2.51): “There has to be a way you know what, separates us from animals, - choice. I choose to travel with you, a dog would do it on instant to fulfill, a need. Disrespect me again and I won't choose to kill you. I'll do it on instinct to fulfill my need to hear you scream”. And what a huge contrast to that practically devastated, emotionally repressed Astarion, who on the “path of redemption” in the graveyard scene dutifully accepts insults from his “partner,” replying, “I will endeavor to please” or “If it has, it might be for the best” with his head down.

Astarion was a deeply traumatized person, but he was strong, and he knew how to snap back. And he could bite. He was not one to give up easily. And it was all the more valuable to earn his trust and the opportunity for Tav to become a close person to him. It's a pity, if Larian decided to “soften” such a magnificently evil character by not including his strong and vivid emotional reactions in the release version. It would have been much better, in my opinion, to reveal his softer side by enriching the roleplay and adding those lines and actions for Tav that would have helped Astarion feel better and start to trust Tav more, an emotional, multifaceted and complex character is a true diamond for any game, capable of making you fall in love and bond with him. Of course, they did a lot of good things in the release version too, in particular I really like Astarion's appearance in the game, all the little wrinkles on his face that make him even more alive and real.

I think Astarion's EA scenes are an important part of his story too, and thanks for having them. I'd certainly like to see a director's version or a gold edition that includes them, but it's unlikely to come true. These scenes added and deepened Astarion's character for me in many ways, and allowed me to understand him even better.

Neil on Ascended Astarion's Laugh

Neil: I didn't ever really improvise anything. I'd improvise how I'd say the line obviously, but I didn't improvise any words really for Astarion. There's hardly anything that I've changed, maybe like one thing, just because it didn't quite work. So largely all the script is as scripted. I did the lines as scripted.

But there was definitely a moment I think I tried to squeeze in muahahas and things like that. *laughs* Like what if I can get away with a cackling laugh that kind of sounds like a muahaha?

Oh, he has a new laugh, I didn't tell you that. Ascended Astarion has a new laugh. Do you want to hear it?

Blue Owl Medic: I feel like it's more true to the character.

Neil: But do you want to hear the actual Ascended Astarion's laugh? I don't know if you picked up on it on your playthrough.

BOM: Yes. No, I haven't actually gotten there.

Neil: I changed the laugh. So, the laugh with Unascended is *high-pitched giggling laugh*. It's all like high and lilting and trill and shrill sort of up and piercing. And then Lord Astarion is *laughs haughtily* Like that. So I dropped it. So he goes, "Oh dear. Well that's not very good, is it. *laughs*" It's all like down here. *points at throat* And low and short as well. So it was really like--it was fun. You'll see it. So there's a difference.

BOM: It's like a wealthy laugh.

Neil: It's a wealthy laugh. It's an of-means laugh.

BOM: Aristocratic, I see somebody say.

Neil: It's a better-than-you laugh. 'I have more money than you. *laughs*'

BOM: 'I have a palace. What do you have? A camp? Fuck you.'

Neil: 'I have a castle. *laughs* Don't you have one? Sorry, that's sad for you.' Yeah, like that.

--from Neil's February 1, 2024 twitch stream