I Normally Don't Like Tennyson's Narrative Around The Female Characters Due To His Framing Of Them Being

I normally don't like Tennyson's narrative around the female characters due to his framing of them being the source of all the faults in Camelot.

But there's a part of this story that often catches my attention and its Guinevere's rejection of Arthur:

I Normally Don't Like Tennyson's Narrative Around The Female Characters Due To His Framing Of Them Being

Like, I can't help but dig idea that Guinevere rejects Arthur because of his virtue. As if his holy character actively irritates her.

If I was writing, I would take it further and outright imply Guinevere is some kind of demonic being. If Tennyson can get away with turning Arthur into a mysterious, divine entity that Merlin found instead of being born of Uther's misdeeds, then I don't see why I can't apply that to Gwen.

Welsh Myth already provides the idea of Guinevere as a Fae/Giantess so I would just present her as a "Reverse Persephone" -

Guinevere is actually a mysterious girl who came up from the "Kingdom beneath the Earth", "a daughter of a Colossus of Old" and is reared as ward of one of Arthur's vassals. Arthur, being taken by her beauty, took her as his wife. "And so, the Worthiest and Most Righteous King on Earth married a she-devil, the fairest of all her race, and made her his Queen."

The reason she finds Arthur repulsive is because she's a "primal spirit" who was born deep underground and can't stand the presence of someone so "Heavenly", so divorced from "the touch of the Earth". Camelot falls into "sinfulness" because Guinevere is in fact a physical avatar of all Materialism and Worldly Values, both good and bad.

And instead of Guinevere repenting of her actions, I would just take a cue from E.A. Robinson and have Gwen reject Arthur to the very end:

I Normally Don't Like Tennyson's Narrative Around The Female Characters Due To His Framing Of Them Being

And if Arthur and Guinevere ever meet again, Guinevere could go as far as threaten to eat Arthur - "as is the habit of my kind, says the Queen" - especially if Arthur starts posturing about his (Victorian) morals and being chaste for her.

If there was a way to present Guinevere as a proper Anti-heroine or compelling villainess without the usual sexism/misogyny, this is how I would do it.

She's not so much an actively evil force as she is simply incompatible with the "Blameless" Arthur and indeed, the marriage's eventual failure was inevitable.

But for a time, while the marriage endured, Camelot was the place where the Spiritual and Material meet as fellows and prosperity ensued.

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6 months ago

That is very relatable because I did the exact same thing. Here's a partial list of my own awful ideas:

It started with Marianne Le Fay (I didn't like the name Morgan, so I renamed her) being so called because she was friends with fairies in the French Alps, then shifted to her being a changeling child who was raised by fey beings after Uther and the rest of his hunting party was killed while hunting a wild boar in Broceliande. No adequate explanation was given for why a three-year-old princess was taken along to hunt a wild boar.

Camelot was actually named Caramel-Not. Bors told people in the foreign countries he was in while he had amnesia that he was from a camel-lot and it stuck. (Also, Bors converted to Hinduism, regained his memory, and decided never to go back. All this was mentioned offhand--he hadn't lived in Camelot for years and never showed up in the story).

Prior to the start, Mordred somehow drove every human apart from him and Arthur, who he kept mostly unconscious, out of Camelot through wild goose chase quests, falsely tarnished names, and more creative but always nonlethal methods.

Mordred isekai'd Guinevere to a world made of clouds. The first part of the plot was just her trying to get back.

Mordred stuck Agravaine, Gareth, and Gaheris on a boat and set it adrift so that listening to Agravaine singing "The Ballad of the Pickled Cabbage" would eat away at the others' sanity.

Gawain and "Gallahad" were best friends. Gallahad was kind of a rustic himbo, in contrast to Percival, who was older and had found the Grail before he showed up (I actually like the last bit's angst potential).

Lancelot was really evil and in league with Anna (who was evil). Guinevere, Gawain, and Gallahad all hated him.

Mordred was a sorcerer and had a strix named Deluge who wanted to be named Norman as his familiar. (I know it makes no sense but I still have a soft spot for corny socially awkward evil wizard Mordred).

Arthur and Guinevere were going to get their marriage annulled, then eventually remarry, because the marriage was arranged and also because when they first married, Guinevere was under a curse.

The whole thing began with a seventh-grade assignment to write an alliterative paragraph, so a weird number of words in the prologue started with the letter G. Thus, we have Gawain grappling a ghastly green ghoul over a golden grail (not THE Grail, apparently, but that isn't clear until much later) at the very start.

Pendragons could turn into literal dragons. Mordred, as Uther's grandson, could turn into one despite lacking the Pendragon name, since it was genetic, but Guinevere could also turn into one because she was a Pendragon by marriage. (The lore was a bit spotty). The climax of the book was going to be an epic dragon battle between Mordred and Guinevere.

There's a bit more of that sort of thing, but I'll leave it there for now.

so a few years ago, before I realised that there was such a thing as an Arthuriana fandom on Tumblr that I could mine for resources, I decided, in my infinite wisdom, to start writing a novel.

now where this goes off the rails is the fact that I a) did no research and b) had some pretty unusual ideas about the characters I was going to be using. having since found out some actual, concrete information on these characters, I thought it would be fun to go through my old ideas and see how fucking wild they are in comparison to what I now know the characters are actually like.

Kea's list of awful ideas:

morgan le fay was going to be a werewolf

king arthur was going to be colourblind and have a peanut allergy as his only identifying traits

lancelot was going to murder his abusive merchant father by staging a cart crash in the middle of the woods, then stabbing him in the confusion. for plot reasons

Nimue/lady of the lake and Lancelot were going to be adoptive siblings who were raised by the wild hunt (still kinda fuck with the siblings idea tbh)

Kay was going to be Arthur's dog.

Guinevere x Lancelot? nah, Guinevere x Lancelot's sister (also still kinda fuck with this, give that woman some lesbianism she deserves it)

the main villain was going to be some random ass faerie assassin called the Shrike, so called because it skewered knights on trees (I used to listen to far too much hozier, if you couldn't guess)

Arthur, Lancelot and Merlin were going to be in a polyam relationship and Guinevere, Nimue and Morgan were going to be in a polyam relationship, which, if you consider the two pairs of siblings in that collection, means that the family tree of these characters is literally a circle.

the Fae were going to have big fuckass bird wings for no particular reason other than I thought it would be cool

I have so many more of these, if this breaches containment I'll make another


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1 year ago
O The Round Table O

O The Round Table O

5 months ago

To add a little clarity, Jenny Rowland in that book isn't actually saying the poem is bad; she finds it very interesting and is mostly analysing it from a detached perspective for the antiquarian traditions it records. There's some commentary on the poetic skill, both positive and negative, which is where the section I posted is from; it's mentioning there's slightly less metrical, technical skill vis a vis the rules and forms of medieval Welsh poetry than some other saga *englynion*, supporting her proposition this dialogue dates from after the form's heyday. I just screencapped a bit I thought was funny out of context because I have a mutual who likes Gwyn a lot and thought they might enjoy seeing him getting kinda bullied, ahah

Fair enough, I can agree with that, and I probably should have read into it further before reblogging. I suppose from my own reading I've become accustomed to vicious authorly attacks on Welsh anti-blorbos. Like this:

To Add A Little Clarity, Jenny Rowland In That Book Isn't Actually Saying The Poem Is Bad; She Finds

Wow, Laurence Main, tell us how you really feel with those sarcastic parentheses on "St" Illtyd! (For the record, I have met that author, and he is a delight to know, but he does not hold back about "Old Ill-Tide" or Gildas and also hates Taliesin with a burning passion).

Or this, from Adam Ardrey:

To Add A Little Clarity, Jenny Rowland In That Book Isn't Actually Saying The Poem Is Bad; She Finds
To Add A Little Clarity, Jenny Rowland In That Book Isn't Actually Saying The Poem Is Bad; She Finds

More sarcastic quotation marks and more hate for Gildas, who was not gentle in his own works and didn't mention King Arthur in any of his surviving writing and is still getting flamed for it around a millenium and a half later by people who are Maelgwyn fans, are trying to prove Arthur was real,* or both. I have written mediocre Gildas fanfiction at two in the morning with this as the fuel, because I think he probably gets too much hate, though having never met him, I can't judge any better than the people who claim he burned his praise of Arthur for petty reasons.

Anyway, this post went off the rails a lot, but all that is to say that literary scholarship can get incredibly opinionated, it's easy to fall into one viewpoint or become overly cynical about it in general, and I think I have mostly done the latter. Also, that Jenny Rowland book sounds rather interesting; I might have to check it out.

*For the record, I have no firm stance on the matter, since as far as I can tell it can't be proven or disproven. In my head, he both was and was not real. Schrödinger's King. Or warrior, rather.


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1 year ago

…as he should be.

I forgot the name of Maimonides-

So I searched up "Jewish philosopher with opinions" and he was the first result.


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3 months ago
(Source: Ridder Metter Mouwen)

(Source: Ridder Metter Mouwen)

Oh, come on! Really?!! Guinevere is Kay's niece in this story?!!


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1 year ago
A Copy Of The Tale Of Balen By Algernon Charles Swinburne

A copy of The Tale of Balen by Algernon Charles Swinburne


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7 months ago
An Early Documentation Of The Safety Dance

An Early Documentation of the Safety Dance

Andromeda by Juan Antonio de Frías y Escalante


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11 months ago

why are all the Jews suddenly posting about cheesecake, you ask? because it’s Shavuot!

sorry, let me give you a quick guide to Jewish holidays

Rosh Hashanah: dip apples in honey, contemplate feeling guilty

Yom Kippur: feel guilty, don’t eat

Sukkot: build a treehouse, shake a lemon at God

Simchat Torah: dance with a Torah scroll

Hanukkah: resist tyranny, eat fried food, set things on fire

Tu B’shvat: hug trees, eat every type of fruit and nut you can acquire, do complicated wine math

Purim: put on a drunken play about a teenage beauty queen, cast shade at tyrants

Passover: don’t eat pastry

Maimuna: eat a ton of pastry

Lag B’omer: set things on fire, shoot arrows, learn about rabbis with laser eyes

Shavuot: eat cheese and stay up all night reading with your female friends

Tisha B’av: mourn, preferably AT people

Hope that clears up any confusion


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9 months ago
Stained Glass By Heaton, Butler & Bayne, Depicting The Female Knight Britomart From Spenser's The Faerie

Stained glass by Heaton, Butler & Bayne, depicting the female knight Britomart from Spenser's The Faerie Queene, at Cheltenham Ladies' College.

Stained Glass By Heaton, Butler & Bayne, Depicting The Female Knight Britomart From Spenser's The Faerie
Stained Glass By Heaton, Butler & Bayne, Depicting The Female Knight Britomart From Spenser's The Faerie
Stained Glass By Heaton, Butler & Bayne, Depicting The Female Knight Britomart From Spenser's The Faerie
Stained Glass By Heaton, Butler & Bayne, Depicting The Female Knight Britomart From Spenser's The Faerie

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taliesin-the-bored - Not the Preideu Annwn
Not the Preideu Annwn

In which I ramble about poetry, Arthuriana, aroace stuff, etc. In theory. In practice, it's almost all Arthuriana.

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